Cardinal Parolin's visit to the State Secretary was held; much has already been expressed by critics, and sung triumphal praises, but what really happened in the high offices, remained with seven seals.
Meeting of the President of Russia V.V. Putin with the Secretary of State of the Vatican Cardinal Pietro Parolin
In the official media, no more than what a common man in the street needs to know: everything went according to the formal protocol of the meeting. In order to understand what really happened, it takes time, namely - the coming events, which will talk about the trend of their further development. And the first swallows flew.
Consider everything in order, that is, those topics that were voiced, and what was left behind the scenes.
Ministers of the Vatican do not travel with visits, and it is not at all a "peace mission", under the pretext of which they advance their own interests of religious expansion. Here there is a built-in whole and global world strategy; the beast is launched - "the mystery of lawlessness in action" (2February 2: 7), and it will take already visible forms.
So, what do we know from open sources and what do these events lead to? In the last article "The Vatican sets an ultimatum to President Putin and Patriarch Kirill", even before the visit of Mr Parolin to Moscow, he spoke of an ultimatum. So where did the ultimatum sound? Everything seems so peaceful.
To begin with, I recall that on the eve of the visit, Vatican Secretary Cardinal Parolin, in an interview with the Italian magazine Corriere della Sera, announced what he would talk about with the Russian president."The Church does not cease to urge all politically responsible leaders of the planet not to oppose national or partial interests to the common good, to respect international law, that is not the right to force, but the force of law,to agreement and cooperation between peoples. The method of this is always dialogue. "
The European "force of law" and the "common good" in the EU - is, I recall, including the rights and benefits of all kinds of perverts, juvenile justice, euthanasia and other achievements of democratic anti-Christ Europe (detailed in my pre-article "The Vatican puts an ultimatum President Putin and Patriarch Kirill "http://bit.ly/2x5sAEW)
After all, in the tolerant constitution of the EU there is not even a mention of either God or the Christian historical roots of Europe. Even the influence of the all-powerful Roman throne did not help. Or maybe he did not need to be influenced, but only to play the role of a defenseless victim? ..
This is the "common good" that Russia does not fit, especially with President Putin's demonstrative statement about traditional values.
Such a quote by the cardinal about forcing Russia to "the common good" we do not find in the transcript of the visit. The tone of the Vatican's representative softened, from his previous position he went on to the declaration - "the supreme interests of the world should be placed above all other interests." But did this sound in a different format?
Officially, the authorities discussed the following topics:
1) The Middle East, especially the situation in Syria;
2) The Ukrainian question;
3) The situation in Venezuela;
4) Difficulties in the life of RCC communities in Russia;
5) Reminder of responsibility for peace.
Topics raised at the meeting with His Holiness the Patriarch:
6) Arrival of the ark with the relics of St. Nicholas;
7) Cooperation in various fields, at different levels: cultural, academic, humanitarian;
8) Ukraine and humanitarian work;
9) Painful topics of relations between the churches, in particular, the activities of Uniates in Ukraine.
No matter how the meeting took place, and what would be behind it, as Parolin testifies in his interview with Radio Vatican, "everything went positively and constructively," & lt; was filled with & gt; "An atmosphere of cordiality, listening and respect," "thanks to the meeting of the Patriarch and the Pope in Havana, and our meeting took place against this background."
But there is also a historical background, at which this meeting took place - this is the centenary of the February Revolution of 1917 - the global catastrophe and tragedy of the Russian Empire and its peoples.
All this reminds very much - God forbid that I would be wrong - the pre-revolutionary meeting of the holy passion-bearer of Tsar Nicholas II with the Jewish billionaire Rothschild in 1896, when the Emperor went to Paris for a visit to the President of France, Foro.
Rothschild immediately asked the Tsar: "How great is the Russian debt of France?" The Sovereign replied: "So many billions." Rothschild said: "I take all this debt, if you agree to give equality to Jews in Russia." The Sovereign refused, saying that the Russian people were still dark and very trustful, and with equal rights, he would immediately fall into bondage to the Jews. Moving away from Rothschild, the Emperor said: "Now I have signed my own death sentence." (From the memoirs of EI Balabin "Far and near," chapter 19, excerpts from the report "On the Emperor Nikolai Alexandrovich and His August Family on the occasion of the 35 anniversary of their death").
The first card shows a sacrificial cock with the head of Tsar Nicholas II, held by a rabbi, the postcard was released in the US at 1910. On the second card is the severed head of Tsar Nicholas with the inscription "Holy Rus"
Well, now, considering all the backgrounds, we will analyze each point in line with the geopolitical positions that govern the Vatican, and then we will understand what it is possible to agree with.
I want to make a reservation that when talking about the Vatican, I mean first of all the forces that stand behind it and are in the leadership of the Catholic Church, but I draw a clear line between the Vatican and sincere RCC believers.
1.The East and Syria.
Christianity has been destroyed there for a long time, and this topic was relevant long before the "Havana meeting". But in order to strengthen the moral motivation of the dialogue between the two Churches (RCC and the ROC), the topic of defending the Christians of the East began to be intensively exploited. The Vatican is in a double position: on the one hand, it is necessary to maintain the position and strategy of the US, NATO and the "pan-European", with their Russophobic attacks, ousting Russia from the Middle East. And more than once the Vatican in the information war podder to various fabricated fakes, putting forward various accusations and peacekeeping proposals to Russia. In Catholic countries, especially such as Poland, as well as in the Baltic countries or among the Uniates of Ukraine, hysterical attacks against Russia - "aggressor", "bombing babies", destroying the peaceful people of Syria, poured bitter tears of "peaceful opposition" - like you you see, all this is not without the instructions of the same Vatican.
And on the other hand, there are obvious facts of Russia's peacekeeping, the defense of the Christians of the East, among which there was a large Catholic Uniat flock, for which the patriarchs of the East (including the Catholic) thank Russia. In addition, this and her successes in the fight against IGIL.
Europe was flooded by millions of Muslim migrants, destroying the old foundations, which, of course, is a blow to the Roman Catholic Church and contributes to its displacement from the sphere of influence on society. But in this, too, it turns out, Putin is guilty. Christianity in Europe is degenerating, for the RCC the issue of new territories is acute, for the spread of Catholicism and the continued existence of the Church. Russia is a tasty morsel, and even if the expansion of the zone of influence is due to another revolution, the Vatican will support it, as it did in Ukraine and in other countries of the world. But for the Vatican this problem remains unresolved, since the Russian Orthodox Church is not going to become a papal corporation under any ultimatums or advances.
2 and 8. The Ukrainian question.
He was discussed by the cardinal both with President Putin and with Patriarch Kirill. Therefore, the points 2 and 8 in their analysis, I unite, and, of course, they are inseparable from the point 9. The topic of the relationship between the Roman Catholic and Russian Orthodox Churches, as well as the activities of the Uniates in Ukraine, is very painful both for the outskirts of Russia (Ukraine) and for Russia itself.
This topic in the negotiations was a major bonus for the Vatican, as it can not be ignored here, as it is one of the initiators and a multi-century participant in the conflicthttps://youtu.be/JxaG6-c71LY.
Ukraine, Union, Russophobic schisms in Orthodoxyhttps://youtu.be/wjyyFQ9eVYQ, Maidanhttps://youtu.be/OxcdW-TrHY8- all these are the projects of the Vatican, created for the purpose of religious expansion and proselytizing in Russia. The discussion of this issue looks something like this: a thief and robber comes to the victim and tells her: "Let's negotiate!" - but it is clear, the plunder is not going to give. So what then is possible to agree with him?https://youtu.be/zU_hO980iJs
This, of course, was also about the Minsk Agreements. Only, perhaps, it ... was not announced. But what will happen next, after the meeting, became clear only after a week or two.
It's silly to assume that the Vatican was not aware of the maturing ultimatum from Europe of Antichrist, in the person of her first player, the earthly "angel" - Angela Merkel (unless the Vatican itself is its author). However, this would be a very natural development of events. At a big annual press conference in Berlin, Angela Merkel told about the conditions for lifting sanctions from Russia. She said that the restrictions will be lifted only when Ukraine regains control over the regions of Donbass. Although in the "Minsk Agreements" this is spelled out in the last paragraph, after the fulfillment of a number of fundamental conditions, and Russia is not a party to the conflict. The de facto "Minsk agreements" are finally buried. What will be the following provocations of the West and what will they lead to?
All recent events in Ukraine: the abduction of Russian journalist Anna Kurbatova, the Russophobic hysteria, the introduction of biometric control of Russian citizens, and the worsening of the situation in the Donbas. Under the aegis of NATO, Polish-Lithuanian Russophobic attacks in connection with the conduct of Russian-Belarusian military exercises. It is likely that all the smoldering conflicts along the perimeter of Russia's borders will once again become artificially aggravated. It may even be that one of them may break out in Transnistria.
And here is the last, unheard-of impudence of the US: it tramples all existing international norms, an open provocation of war - mockery of diplomats, the closure of the Russian embassy, the invasion of its territory, a search in the building, and, as already stated in America, the seizure and sale of Russia's diplomatic capacity. It is quite obvious that with such a development of events about the gold reserve and money invested in US securities one can forget, as they say, "drink with cold water" (although it is better to drink a holy water, maybe then it will brighten in the mind of state husbands ... ).
You will say that all these events have nothing to do with the Vatican, or they do not know anything about it?
Then I will allow myself a "lyrical digression" from the main topic, so that the reader will be more clear in what and where the authorship and leadership role of the Vatican manifested itself: in the organization of "color revolutions", coups d'etat, coups, etc.
This was very clearly shown on Maidan in Kiev. Bishop Boris (Gudzyak) openly announced that more than half of the participants in the two Maidans constitute the flock of Ukrainian Catholics from Western Ukraine (https://youtu.be/OxcdW-TrHY8, watch from 11.50 minutes). Students of all Catholic and Greek Catholic spiritual institutions also took an active part in the fratricidal confrontation on the Maidan, especially teachers and students from the Ukrainian Catholic University. They were the ones who threw Molotov cocktails and poked their eyes at the Berkut people. Imagine, these are future priests!
To support religious motivation in the ongoing fratricide, the UGCC and the RCC have even reached the point of creating such a "prayer masterpiece" as the "Revolutionary Prayer"!
Revolutionary prayer for the authorship of the RCC and the UGCC
By the way, in this "prayer book" it is reported that the Philippine ruler Marcos could not be overthrown, only one battalion went over to the side of the insurgents. But the local cardinal Haim Sin called the flock, and millions went out into the street, blocked the army and overthrew the dictator. It belongs to him: "My duty is to bring Christ into politics." Former President Fidel Ramos once called this cardinal "the sacred commander-in-chief" for his ability to raise the masses.
Cardinal of the Roman Catholic Church Haime Sin, who organized the uprising and murder of President Marcos in the Philippines
"The Holy Totem" - the chaplain of Maidan in Kiev was the former head of the UGCC Cardinal Lyubomyr (Guzar), it belongs to him the phrase: "The people have the natural right to an armed uprising." And now the acting head of the Bandera Uniats, a US citizen, Cardinal Svyatoslav (Shevchuk) said: "The Holy Spirit led the people to the Maydan." Thus, fratricide was encouraged. Bandery is a driving force for the Greek Catholicshttps://youtu.be/jfM87pyHzXw.
Cardinal UGCC Lyubomyr Guzar on the Maidan
An attempt was also made to organize a revolution and a coup in Belarus. The Catholic Church in Minsk is the heart of the national-liberal opposition of the Republic of Belarus. It is here that a structure has been created, through which many Western money is being spent, information "pumping" of participants in mass riots is taking placehttp://bit.ly/2iUNYLc. A few years ago for the espionage the law enforcement bodies of the Republic of Belarus detained the priests of Vladislav Lazar, who supervised the issues of foreign intelligence. He was charged with violating clause 1 art. 356 of the Criminal Code of Belarus. His criminal responsibility is determined by Item 6 Art. 16 "Complicity in the Crime" of the Criminal Codehttp://bit.ly/2xOqEBU.
"Holy Father" spy Vladislav Lazar
26 March 2017, on the day of the speeches of the Belarusian opposition hired by the governments of the United States and the European Union, an interesting statement was made by the head of the Catholics of Belarus Cardinal Tadeusz Kondrusiewicz concerning the events that took place these days: "I call on the state authorities and its opponents, as well as public organizations and people of different views towards constructive dialogue ". And about the detainees, he said that he "hopes for their early return". Why, then, does the "peacemaker" not condemn the detainees by the police for riots, provocations and carrying weapons with them? The fact is that the cardinal deliberately hides that among them there were Ukrainian Uniates - nationalist militants, who had experience of murders on the Kiev Maydan. The Catholic Catholics of all countries, unite! ..
Metropolitan of Minsk-Mogilev RCC Tadeusz Kondrusiewicz (Polish by nationality), the sponsor of the opposition in Belarus
Now the Jesuit Francis, through his representatives, is actively engaged in overthrowing the disagreeable new world order of President Maduro in Venezuela and Daniel Ortega in Nicaragua, conducting subversive operations against China, for example, fueling insurgencies in Hong Kong (Hong Kong).
3.The theme of Venezuela.
This theme is completely in tune with the above. Russia has sufficient influence and economic interest on the Latin American continent, in particular, in Venezuela. The Vatican has something to negotiate with Russia and how to blackmail it in defending the geopolitical and economic interests of the United States. After all, Russia, under adverse circumstances, can lose in this country multimillion-dollar contracts and joint projects in the field of carbon production. Here's an example of how this happens.
President of the Conference of Catholic Bishops of Venezuela Archbishop Monsignor Diego Padron Sanchez said that citizens have the right to peaceful protest against the authority of President Nicolas Maduro. The Vatican does not hide the goals of the Catholic insurrection in Venezuela. 19 October 2016, the first press conference of the new general of the Jesuit Order, Arturo Soz, the favorite of Pope Francis, took place at the General Curia's residence of the "Jesus Society" (Jesuits) on XNUMX October. It was a wonderful recognition.
Venezuelan, General of the Order of the Jesuits Arthur Soz Abaskal, who is hampered by the state's monopoly on strategic resources
In his speech, Arthur Soz Abascal outlined some key points in the future mission of the Jesuits, and outlined the main regions of their activity. According to an editorial note dedicated to his press conference "Radio Vatican", "Venezuela is one of such painful regions of the world ...and one of the obstacles to the development of democracy in the country is the state's monopoly on oil. "http://bit.ly/2gDI4wY. Think about the cynical meaning of this statement! The Vatican makes a sharp political statement in the interest of the US State Department and a number of related transnational corporations claiming to seize Venezuela's natural resources. And after that, he still talks about his "peacemaking"!
Disorders in the cities of Venezuela. Oh, how it resembles the Maidan in Kiev!
Pope Francis of France in 2013 clearly manifested himself in Brazil, publicly announcing there of his intentions. Speaking at the main cathedral of Rio de Janeiro, where about 5 thousand young people gathered, the Franciscan pope said: "I want you to take to the streets with protests, I want disorders in the dioceses, I want the church to come out on the streets and left the worldly peace, convenience and clericalism, so that we ceased to be locked in ourselves. " After that he pointedly turned to the prelates and said: "May the bishops and priests forgive me if the youth arrange riots, but this is my advice"http://bit.ly/2w5MgrK .
4.Difficulties in the life of the communities of the Roman Catholic Church in Russia.
When discussing this topic, questions of a domestic nature were raised. The underdevelopment of the Catholic communities, structurally and financially, does not provide an opportunity for increased expansion and creation of the ground for another revolution. That these words are not perceived as an unfounded accusation, it is enough to see what the priests of the Greek Catholic and Catholic communities in Moscow are doing: here you are Russophobia, support and financing of national-fascist battalions in the Donbass, and inciting national hatred, and supporting all sorts of separatism , and the preaching of fascismhttp://bit.ly/2iW77MD .
Active participation in the Maidan was hosted by Russian Catholics, for them the Cathedral of St. Alexander and the Catholic Institute of Religious Sciences of St. Thomas Aquinas in Kiev, the seminary of the UGCC served as the focal points; In the same place, they stored tires in advance, prepared Molotov cocktails. Almost all the temples of the UGCC and the RCC in the period of the Maidan were on a twenty-four-hour basis, for "rendering assistance" to "them". Let me remind you once again: Catholic and Greek Catholic students, teachers, "holy fathers" cast molotov cocktails, killed people, and cut eyes to "Berkut people".
Participation of Russian Catholics in a fratricidal coup in Ukraine. Probably, only the Catholic "Jesus" for Euro-Sodom values!
5. Reminder of responsibility for peace.
I think it will not be a news for you if I say that one of the best intelligence services in the world is the Vatican intelligence. It uses an unlimited influence on its flock and through it creates "weather" in other states. The Vatican has many hundred years of experience of intrigue, Jesuit insidiousness and meanness, high level of diplomacy, skill in deception and hypocrisy, and all these qualities formed the basis of their modern special services. To pretend that it is not known about the tremendous efforts that Russia has been applying and applying for centuries to maintain stability in the world means to be hypocritical and cynical. But such a fashionable game in Russophobia is completely satisfied with the Vatican. "The bad" Russia Vatican educates, edifies, advises, can take under its guardian wings (under the condition of the union, of course). In a word, as they would say in Europe, glory to the Vatican!
As Cardinal Parolin stated at the press conference, the pope's visit was not discussed, but "if you go, come in" - the Vatican's appetites did not diminish, and for the "peacemaker" of the pope you can always create an excuse for coming-peacemaking. But, believe me, this will be blackmail on a global scale, slander, even, perhaps, a series of local wars.
This experience of "friendship" with Russia has already been with the Vatican. After John the Terrible refused to accept the Latin heresy - union, he was slandered - accused by the legate of the Pope of Rome, Jesuit Antoni Passevin (1581) in the murder of his own son. Catholics, in the same 1581 year, incited the Tatars and Poles in the war against the Russian Tsar. It is worth remembering modern events: for example, how the papal ward Uniates fired up a civil war in Ukraine, or how they incited radicals to select Orthodox churches (the capture of the temple in Kolomiyahttps://youtu.be/40hU_LFaXYI). More than 30-ti temples were damaged or destroyed in the Donbas. And after that they still act as "peacemakers" and "peacemakers". Cynicism is just off scale.
Do you still believe in Vatican peacekeeping in Ukraine? Oh, how desirable and even, to some extent, flattering were statements about peace in the Donbass of Cardinals Leonardo Sadri and Claudio Gugerotti. But where were the angry, sharp condemnations of Vatikan's murders of the APU to more than thirty children and civilians of Donbass, murders and tortures of prisoners? Where is the judgment of Russophobia? All their phrases are ambiguous and streamlined.
Themes raised in a conversation with His Holiness Patriarch Kirill
6.The arrival of the ark with the relics of St. Nicholas of Myra in the city of Bari.
During the meeting, the hierarchs thanked each other for their mutual cooperation and the opportunity to bring some of their relics to Russia.
Shrines are always in reverence for the God-loving people, especially St. Nicholas, who is considered the beloved Russian saint. Undoubtedly, the opportunity to join the shrine raised the religious spirit of believers. This religious spirit Catholics tried to use to establish good interreligious relations, but the question is what did the Vatican want to achieve? Conclusions do it yourself, given the listed facts of "peacemaking" of the Roman See in other countries.
7. Cooperation of various fields, at different levels: cultural, academic, humanitarian.
In the RCC, it is necessary to admit that the social mission is rather structured, systemically and scaled up, scientific contacts are developed within the framework of interstudent exchange, are widely engaged in charitable activities, and this, of course, brings fruit to the spread of Catholicism and the intensification of proselytizing activity. But free cheese is only in a mousetrap. Students and other poor people, having fallen under financial influence, accept Catholicism. It is enough to look at the results of cooperation between Catholic Poland and Ukraine, when Poland introduced the "Pole Card".
To somehow improve their financial situation in Ukraine, it began to receive Orthodox "second cousins". But one of the conditions for its adoption is acculturation, - I wrote about the mechanism of this in great detail in the article "The Polish Question, or What Does Ukraine Want?"http://bit.ly/2vEkE1k, Which also leads to the complete colonization of the country.
Behind the mask of external positive peacemaking there is always a seducing demon. So is it worth it to us with him (the Vatican) to have cooperation? And if so, at what distance?
8.The painful themes of relations between the churches, in particular the actions of the Uniates in Ukraine.
The theme of Uniates' actions in Ukraine - and, in the context of this and in Russia, - was a fundamental condition for communication on the eve of the "Havana meeting". What changed after it? Although the Havana Declaration condemned the method of unitatism (paragraph 25) in the relations between the Churches, but, proceeding from all the above facts presented by the video of what is happening in Ukraine, we can say that aggression has only intensified. For many centuries, Uniatism was the vanguard in the expansion of the Orthodox, and not an indicator of the desire for ecclesiastical unity. The Vatican has not yet refused any of the Uniate structures and is not going to do so.
Results and forecasting.
So, let's sum up. What can be agreed with the Vatican in this position? Do we need to dialogue with them at all?
For the Vatican, this meeting is positive and constructive, if only because an ultimatum from the West was presented by the mouth of his representative of Russia. Much of his amusement was his self-esteem and the awareness that our threats are still being considered, which means that you must obey us. At the moment, Cardinal Parolin is a kind of shout of anti-christ.
But now it is worthwhile to assume what further course of events is possible and to be ready for it. As the saying goes, "Prepare for the worst, hope for the best."
The Vatican built up its multi-hatch, foreseeing various options for action. Consciously or not, he is a party to the plan of the Antichrist and his instrument.
Before our eyes, terrible pressure is being exerted on Russia, on the Russian Orthodox Church (and, in particular, on the Ukrainian Orthodox Church of the Moscow Patriarchate) with the "peacekeeping" connivance of the Vatican, or rather, with its participation.
The Vatican neither soft nor hard power could not incline the ROC in a union or at least achieve the necessary changes to it or trends in this direction, not to mention the fact that the whole religious people are against flirting with Rome. And this means that only blackmail, persecution and terror remain to be used by the enemies.
It is likely that after the proclamation of Russophobia as an integral part of the EU's policy and the rest of the unfriendly world, there can be a targeted persecution of the ROC as the "aggressor's country" structure, and sympathizers will be persecuted as "accomplices of terrorism". Such a system of "legal" pressure was in Hitler's Germany in relation to those churches that did not share the ideology of fascism (http://bit.ly/2wFpZVc). Today it is already rolling in Ukraine (bills No.4511, No.4128, No.5309, No.6642, No.6696 and othershttp://bit.ly/2eE39Dx), and then the "precedent" will become an obligatory and universal legal practice for a "democratic and civilized" world. Let's remember what happened in the EU.
On November 22, 2016, the European Parliament adopted a resolution on countering "propaganda hostile to the European Union". In it, among the main enemies of the Western world, along with the Russian media, is the Russian Orthodox Church, which "poses a danger" for Europe, as it "sows doubts and discord among the countries of the union, weaken the strategic unity of the EU and its North American partners, paralyze the adoption process decisions, discredit the EU institutions and transatlantic partnership ". In this resolution, the European parliamentarians equated the struggle with the ROC to fight against the terrorist organization "Islamic State" (IG) and "Al-Qaeda" (both banned in the Russian Federation). The main informational enemy in the resolution is precisely the Russian Orthodox Churchhttp://bit.ly/2vL34sG .
The Vatican does not have to be cynical and perfidious in order to carry out the terror against the ROC, let us recall at least the massive Catholic genocide and the persecution of Orthodox Christians over the last century in Serbia and Croatia, Austria, Poland and Ukraine, which continue to this day. Vatican Games under the guise of peacekeeping are becoming more sophisticated forms.
Behind the Jesuit words about the struggle "for world peace" an ultimatum of the Antichrist is heard. But have not all the RCC's hierarchies been sold, and there are no decent ones who understand what it's all about? I think that most of them understand everything perfectly. But they already have no other choice. Once making a concession to the devil, saying "a" to him, one has to say "b" already. What will happen in future with the Roman Catholic Church and, first of all, with its believers?
In my opinion, after Cardinal Parolin's not very successful visit - after all the desired results for both the customer of the meeting and for the Vatican itself are not reached, - there will be a "disqualification", "removal from the field", as the other owner will come. Remains of Western Christianity, though distorted, - to take the same ordinary, sincere believers - will be quietly, methodically and "legally" finished off. That is why the Vatican, the capital of the Western Catholic world, shudders in convulsions, pursues former glory, spiritual and material power, concludes a contract with the evil one, promotes against meetings with "the powerful of this world," "peacemakers," threatens "impudent" Russia with his finger , announces an ultimatum to her ... But at the same time he himself signed a death sentence. God is not mocked!
The beast is launched, "the mystery of lawlessness in action" (2Fess 2: 7).
But we have immutable intercessors before God, our many saints and God-bearing compatriots; they left us the Word of God - the prophecies about the destinies of Russia."The Lord will have mercy on Russia and lead her through suffering to great glory"- so Saint St. Seraphim of Sarov said.